From Belfast to the frontlines of sustainable travel: Andy Pag on technology, justice and change

Since leaving broadcast journalism, he has built an international reputation as one of the world’s most distinctive sustainable travel pioneers, known for real-world expeditions powered by alternative fuels and experimental technologies.

From driving across continents on used cooking oil to sailing from Greece to New Zealand and paragliding around the Himalayas, Pag’s work blends adventure, environmental responsibility, social justice and hands-on innovation.

In this exclusive interview with the London Keynote Speakers Agency, Andy Pag shares his perspective on sustainable travel, emerging technologies, global collaboration and what meaningful change truly demands.

How do you see emerging technologies realistically shaping the future of sustainable transport and travel?

Andy Pag: “Yeah. So there was an era, back in the early noughties, where people first cottoned onto this idea of using used cooking oil to fuel their cars and it became very popular as a sort of garage hobby thing to do. And then the competition for getting oil from restaurants became increasingly difficult and then the waste oil started to have a value. So then there was a cost involved.

“And then actually what happened is that that whole process got consolidated by biodiesel producers who were making fuel in a much more efficient way. So it was kind of hard luck for the garage enthusiasts like myself, but actually overall it was quite a positive thing.

“In terms of technology, it’s really nice to think, when you think about the climate crisis and the way we use energy, it’s lovely to think that there’s going to be some technological panacea out there that’s going to solve everything.

“Electrification is certainly working wonders in terms of cars, personal transport and rail networks and the electrification of our grid. Those are really great solutions. They work really well and what’s really uplifting and positive to think about is that they are happening at pace. You look at the pace which the UK is rolling out electrification of the grid. It is absolutely amazing. And actually, the UK is not even one of the fastest countries around the world that are doing it. So there are reasons to be really positive there.

“There are some forms of travel that I personally don’t think that in my lifetime we’ll see carbon-free versions of. So freight transportation - it’s very difficult for logistic reasons for freight transport to be electrified in terms of charging times and downtime for vehicles. There’s a kind of economic pressure on freight transport that makes that very difficult.

“Planes, the amount of energy you need, the battery technology is evolving, but again, I don’t think in my lifetime we’ll see electric-powered planes that can do even short-haul distances at the sort of speed and the way we use jet planes at the moment. And so there are technological solutions that can help in one respect, but some solutions have to be more societal.

“We have to think about how we use resources in a more sustainable way and think about really how we make those societal value judgements. I think with plane travel, it’s a difficult one. It always becomes a really contentious issue to talk about, but I think really we have to value plane travel in a very different way.

“We live in a world, certainly in the developed world, where we have connections that are very far away. Our lives have grown in a way that our social networks are expanded and that’s been facilitated by plane travel and if you were to suddenly turn that off then that’s a difficult challenge to solve. My mother lives in Turkey. I like to go and see my mother. There’s not really the option to drive. It’s too far away. So how do you reconcile those things?

“So I think that has to be something that is decided on a societal level, how we valorise the resources that go with plane travel in a way that means that they’re fairly used and responsibly used with respect to the people who are at the other end of the climate crisis consequences.

“So that really comes down to having, it’s funny you’ve asked me a question about technology, but at the end of the day it comes down to having functioning governments, functioning institutions that have a resilience to lobbying, that can make rational decisions. Again, sustainability at the end of the day is all about the well-being of humanity. It’s a social justice issue really.

“And so some of the technology can certainly help, part of that is part of the answer, but there’s a bigger context and a bigger framework that some of those decisions have to be made in.”

From your global expeditions, what have you learned about building trust and collaboration across different cultures?

Andy Pag: “So a lot of my trips have been very ambitious and, surprisingly, they’ve on the whole been pretty successful. And I think really I have to give credit for that success to the people I’ve met along the way that have helped me.

“So I think that collaboration is really important. I’ve thought a lot about how that works and the mechanisms that go to make that successful or unsuccessful. And I think for me the key that’s unlocked that door is my genuine curiosity, and that curiosity comes from, I suppose in some ways, a kind of personal insecurity that I’m never quite sure that the way I do things or the way my culture does things is necessarily the right way, and there’s a curiosity to see, well how do other people do this somewhere else?

“And I think when you go to a place with that curiosity and you’re emboldened to ask the questions and engage, I’ve learned everything I learned about diesel engines in Morocco hanging out with mechanics. Everything I know about fibreglass boats I learned in Guatemala hanging out in the boatyard. I learned how to cook a dal bhat when I lived in Nepal.

“And these are all collaborations, if you like, that have come about through curiosity. In my career I’ve been a journalist for most of my life and a private investigator for part of it as well. And people often think that as a journalist you have some special legal exemptions or powers that allow you to do certain things, and you absolutely don’t.

“The only powers, if you like, that you have as a journalist is that socially it’s acceptable for you to ask those probing questions that people otherwise would feel a bit awkward about asking. And again, journalism for me has been the perfect excuse to exercise that curiosity.

“And there’s a second element to it as well, which is that that curiosity is often reciprocal. If you’re in a place that’s foreign to you, then you can pretty much guarantee that you’re foreign to that place. So it’s important that you encourage that curiosity and that questioning to come back to you.

“So when we did the Greece to Greece Rally where we drove 10 cars from London to Athens powered by used cooking oil that we scavenged along the way, a lot of the places we stopped had never heard of this idea that you could run a diesel engine on used cooking oil. And so a lot of them were asking us questions and we were showing engines and this is how it works, these are the modifications and this is what you can do.

“And again, that collaboration is not necessarily one way. Well, by definition, it’s not one way and that curiosity is not one way. So I think that’s really the key for me, that’s what I’ve found, that a kind of curiosity and finding those kind of social mechanisms that allow you to indulge that curiosity and ask the questions that maybe, in a more formal setting or in other settings, you wouldn’t get away with asking.”

When audiences leave one of your talks, what core message do you most want them to carry forward?

Andy Pag: “I often get booked by clients because my story is quite quirky. You can imagine trying to fill up a van with used cooking oil from a crisp factory in Thran. These are funny, entertaining stories and it’s a nice distraction.

“Often people find it really good to have me talking straight after lunch to snap people out of their food coma before they go back into the meat and the content, the meat of the content, of their events.

“I think what’s really important for me is to get across the optimistic and the positive message about the direction of travel that we’re on in terms of sustainability and that change is possible and positive outcomes are happening and can happen. I think all too often, the sustainability gurus, there’s an element of doom and gloom and threat and if we don’t do this, this bad thing will happen, and they’re not wrong.

“But I think there’s another way of framing that message of, you know, there are some positive things we can do that have a positive effect. I like to think I have quite a conversational style, so maybe I’m not as fluent. I’m certainly not a sort of authoritarian speaker that pronounces 'this is how we do it'. And I think that works well. I think big rooms end up feeling more intimate and small rooms feel more significant. So I think that works quite well.

“And my personal goal whenever I’m giving a talk is I like to leave clients thinking, 'Oh, that was actually a lot more thought-provoking than I was expecting'. So as I say, I tend to get booked because the stories are quite quirky and quite novel. But for me, telling the jestery stories about the time I was arrested or whatever, yes, it’s good fun.

“But actually, for me, what I find rewarding about talks and sharing my thoughts on this is giving people a new framework or a different set of frameworks, a different set of perspectives to look at the issue of sustainability.”

This exclusive interview with Andy Pag was conducted by Tabish Ali of The Motivational Speakers Agency.